Former CDC official reacts to agency shifting stance on vaccines and autism : NPR

TO MARTÍNEZ, HOST:

We are now joined by Dr. Demeter Daskalakis. He is the former director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. He resigned in August, citing concerns about the direction of the agency under his current leadership. Doctor, I’m just going to read you the first line from the CDC website on autism and vaccines.

(Reading) The claim that vaccines do not cause autism is not evidence-based because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism.

So what do you think when you hear this?

DEMETRE DASKALAKIS: It’s doublespeak, ultimately. There is also no evidence that umbrellas cause kittens – they do not cause kittens. It’s literally saying there’s some sort of misinformation or data distortion when in reality, vaccines don’t cause autism. Forty very high-quality studies involving nearly 6 million people, carried out in seven countries, have shown very clearly that vaccines do not cause autism. So when I hear that, my response is: that’s why I left the CDC. You see RFK Jr.’s ideology elevated into the space of legitimate science by being called a CDC document.

MARTÍNEZ: So…

DASKALAKIS: When you can’t…

MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.

DASKALAKIS: …Prove that something is a problem, just put a piece of paper on the website, and that makes it real. It’s magical thinking

MARTÍNEZ: So, doctor, I want to read you the second line, given what you just said. So here is the second line of this part, autism and vaccines.

(Reading) Studies supporting a link have been ignored by health authorities.

Does this seem argumentative to you, or what do you think?

DASKALAKIS: It sounds like the same old rhetoric, the same anti-vaccine tropes that we’ve been hearing for a very long time. I think right now you have RFK Jr., who has elevated his ideology to an official document. I think at the end of the day, every scientist I’ve talked to, every study I’ve seen, every meta-analysis, everything that’s done with high quality actually reports that vaccines don’t cause autism. Ultimately, when I hear this, I hear vendetta, which is why you are seeing the destruction of the CDC and public health. The Secretary does not respect public health, does not understand science, and, frankly, is using the CDC as a weapon for the potential future benefit of his colleagues and himself.

MARTÍNEZ: What do you think could happen to public health? What do you think the effect might be when the CDC makes a decision…

DASKALAKIS: I think it’s…

MARTÍNEZ: …A position like this?

DASKALAKIS: Yeah. I think it’s already happened. So, you know, as I said, when I resigned, the main reason I resigned was because science had been trumped by ideology and scientists at the CDC had been held hostage while others were creating policies and documents and actually, you know, formulating data analyzes that were not best practices. CDC really – can’t really be trusted at the moment. And I think that may be true in other areas, but most certainly in the area of ​​vaccines, I can say with great certainty that I would not trust anything from the CDC at this point or in this time. Their behavior – and by them, I mean that of HHS. It’s not the scientists at the CDC. But HHS’s behavior demonstrates that it is using the CDC as a shield to achieve its nefarious goals.

MARTÍNEZ: Dr. Demeter, some people will read these new lines on the CDC website and think that finally someone is listening. What is your message for them?

DASKALAKIS: I mean, you know, the most important thing is, you know, I think public health has had a very complex few years, since COVID. And the lesson, I think, was very clear: it’s really not possible to have effective public health without really effective community engagement and listening. You need political will and you really need good science. So I think what’s really important is that public health needs to listen better. But just because you think it or feel it doesn’t make it true.

I’m really struck by a line on the new CDC website that says the increase in autism prevalence since the 1980s correlates with the increase in the number of vaccines given to infants. It’s bad science. Many things also increased at the same time. And so the parents who really feel more seen here – I think it’s really important to say that, you know, they are preyed upon by someone who is giving them incorrect information and false hope so that he and his colleagues can profit in the future, potentially from litigation. I mean, the main thing is…

MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.

DASKALAKIS: …For example, with this document released to the world, RFK Jr. now has the ability to, you know, potentially change the vaccine injury compensation program. It is…

MARTÍNEZ: Doc…

DASKALAKIS: …The program that really protects businesses…

MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.

DASKALAKIS: …So that they are able to produce vaccines.

MARTÍNEZ: Doctor, quickly – just a few seconds – where should people look for information if they’re considering vaccinating their children?

DASKALAKIS: No, it’s great. Pediatricians. It is one of the most sacred relationships people have between their children’s parents and their doctors. You know, the secretary said in testimony before Congress, don’t listen to him for medical advice. Let me echo that. He’s right. Don’t do it. The right source is your doctor, whether a pediatrician, nurse, or pharmacist.

MARTÍNEZ: Okay.

DASKALAKIS: Look to your local health departments, and also look to professional organizations that…

MARTÍNEZ: Thank you, but…

DASKALAKIS: …Represent the doctors.

MARTÍNEZ: …We’ll leave it there. It’s Dr. Demeter…

DASKALAKIS: Great.

MARTÍNEZ: …Daskalakis, former director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.

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