‘Scandalized’ podcast argues political scandals are more than gossip : NPR

MILES PARKS, HOST:

It seems like a new scandal arises in the political world every day – I mean, maybe every hour. But can scandals also reveal deeper truths about our politics? On member station Boise State Public Radio’s Scandalized podcast, hosts Charlie Hunt and Jaci Kettler get into some of these salacious stories. Both are self-proclaimed gossips and associate professors of political science at Boise State University. They are joining me now. Hello guys.

CHARLIE HUNT, BYLINE: Thank you, Miles.

JACI KETTLER, BYLINE: Hey.

PARKS: Yeah, thanks for being here. So I want to start with a scandal that I think may be in the top 10 of this century. In June 2009, South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford disappeared. A lot of our listeners will say, oh, yes, I remember that. It turns out the reason he left was pretty salacious. What made you want to look into this specific scandal?

KETTLER: It was also one of our favorites that we always wanted to focus on because, you know, it seems like a classic sex scandal, but there’s so much more to it. And it’s shocking to see the sitting governor disappear. And Sanford’s disappearance created a lot of confusion since he apparently didn’t let anyone know where he was going. So staff ended up giving conflicting statements about his whereabouts, ultimately leading to the infamous and inaccurate explanation that he was hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Well, it turned out that Sanford was actually in Argentina visiting the woman he was having an affair with. And while that detail is probably what most people remember about the scandal, serious questions also arise about the possible misuse of public funds and what would happen in an emergency. Admittedly, upon his return to South Carolina, Sanford apologized and admitted everything, but he had been widely considered a potential presidential candidate in 2012. And while he didn’t have to resign as governor, it definitely ended his chances of becoming president at that time.

PARKS: Yeah. I kind of feel like it was kind of the old days in terms of the idea of ​​an apology, even right now I feel like it’s a little foreign in the world of politics. But…

HUNT: Yeah.

PARKS: …This scandal happened, you know, about 15 years ago, in the first year of the Obama administration. What has changed in our politics since then?

HUNT: Yes, I think that’s the case to a large extent. You know, on the one hand, the media environment, as your listeners know, has changed enormously, with social media and a constant focus on individual politicians. This gives voters more information about the behavior of politicians than they ever had before and probably never wanted to have. And there is also a growing focus on forms of corruption that are actually legal and embedded in the system. You know, I think about things like the enormous amount of money in our politics or members of Congress trading stocks in the industries they regulate. These are two things we covered in the podcast.

And I think because of that, trust in government has completely collapsed in recent years. Frankly, many Americans assume that most politicians are inherently corrupt. And you know, every new scandal that arises only confirms these beliefs. So it’s kind of a vicious cycle that I think makes even the most serious scandals, even more serious than the Sanford example, seem just mundane and routine.

PARKS: It also feels like the country is incredibly polarized right now. Does this influence how the country reacts to these scandals?

HUNT: Yeah. And I think all of this, Miles, is made worse by political polarization – right? – among politicians, among voters. Basically, the more polarized and distant the two parties are from each other, the more we see the other side as different from us, as an enemy, and the more likely we are to engage in this kind of moral relativism about how we view scandals. So, you know, the political figures that we like, that we identify with, get the benefit of the doubt, or we can explain it away. And then the opponents are somehow presumed guilty, no matter what the facts say.

PARKS: It seems impossible to talk about political scandals without talking about the current American president. I mean, President Trump is someone who overcame – I can think of just one – you know, hushing up money payments to a porn star to get her back into the White House, for example. And that’s one of many other things, like I said. You did an episode in your most recent season called “The Elephant in the Oval Office.” Given all the different types of scandals that Trump has been associated with, what did you end up focusing on?

KETTLER: Yeah, it was a little difficult to focus our attention on that. But, you know, during his first term, there were real concerns about his business and his family’s business. But the second term seemingly took things to a whole new level, especially with Trump’s embrace of cryptocurrency. He’s done a complete 180 on crypto over the past few years and even ended up promoting a Trump coin right before his inauguration, which earned him at least $300 million this year. So this is part of a larger and questionable mix of the tech industry and government. For example, we’ve seen the front-row seats that tech CEOs got as inaugurations or donations for the new White House ballroom. You know, all of this raises concerns about whether – how Trump is personally profiting from his position, as well as whether industries like the tech industry are getting special treatment.

HUNT: And I also think it’s – you know, it’s not even just these corrupt actions, which, you know, we could go on – right? – with this last year of administration, but how they are doing. So, you know, for example, this administration is much more willing than in the first term to use the legal system to go after opponents or individuals who have tried to hold Trump accountable. And then on the other hand, Trump really used the presidential pardon power in a way that I think it’s safe to say that the framers probably didn’t intend, you know, whether it was the pardon of the January 6 rioters or more recently, sort of echoing Jaci’s point, of a major crypto billionaire. The idea here is – right? – that if you go against him, you will see the book thrown at you. You are going to receive massive punishment. But if you help him or cover for him, then maybe you’re just off the hook.

PARKS: They are political scientists Charlie Hunt and Jaci Kettler. They host the Scandalized podcast, which you can listen to wherever you get your NPR network podcasts. Thank you both.

HUNT: Thanks, Miles.

KETTLER: Thank you.

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