Former U.S. ambassador to the Holy See on Rubio’s visit to the Vatican : NPR

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

To learn more about Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s visit to the Vatican, we called Miguel Diaz. He is a former ambassador to the Holy See during the Obama administration and professor of theology at Loyola University Chicago. We spoke just before Pope Leo and Secretary Rubio met.

Ambassador, I mean, you’re a diplomat. Is it possible that this meeting is going well when the boss of the Secretary of State, the President of the United States, is attacking the Pope?

MIGUEL DIAZ: Yes, it is possible that the meeting went well because the Vatican did diplomacy and dealt with difficult issues and much more, you know, issues that were very difficult than those that are currently being addressed. That said, Marco Rubio’s job, the job of secretary of state, is difficult, given the context in which he is engaging in this conversation.

FADEL: What would success look like for Marco Rubio and Pope Leo in this meeting?

DIAZ: The United States views the Holy See as a sovereign entity, a global humanitarian actor, and a moral voice that has always defended the dignity of all human persons. And so what the pope has done, as has already been said before, is the pope has done his job both as the leader of the Holy See and as the leader of the Catholics of the world. And so, in terms of success, you know, Marco Rubio has to listen to what the pope has to offer in terms of the wisdom that this institution has brought. You know, we call this institution an institution that has ears and eyes everywhere and that tries to act in the name of the common good. And so when I was ambassador, the three L’s were, you know, something that we practice, which is listening to the other, learning from the other and leading through that listening. And I think listening is going to be very important for these two as they come together and try to repair what are undoubtedly very difficult and unfortunate comments from the president when he said the pope was terrible at foreign policy.

FADEL: How significant is it that the secretary of state is holding this meeting in this time of war and – I mean, in this time of war with Iran?

DIAZ: Well, I think it’s very important. It is the Pope who, from the beginning, has called for an unarmed and unarmed peace. This is a central theme of his papacy. The United States and the Holy See have traditionally collaborated on issues such as combating hunger, human rights, religious freedom, global health, and peace and security. These are therefore central themes on which each ambassador from each administration has worked with the Holy See. Many of these themes have been compromised by policies that have damaged, for example, USAID, and are now compromised by a war that threatens the lives of millions and instability around the world. And so I think it’s a very important meeting. And the Vatican has played a key role as a neutral voice, bringing diverse nations together precisely in times of war like this to try to repair, you know, conflicts and prevent them, but also, once the conflict begins, to try to end it. And so I think, you know, we’re too polarized, both as a nation and as a world. It would be a great success if, you know, from this meeting, the Secretary of State walked away, in some way, with some wisdom to bring back to the States and to the President that the human family no longer needs conflict, but that the human family must, you know, embark on the path of healing and reconciliation.

FADEL: Is there a political risk for the Trump administration if the president continues to attack the pope and this tension only grows?

DIAZ: Well, I think the risk is we’ve seen it now in the polls. You know, we saw with images, we saw with words. I mean, words matter and pictures matter. We can use the power of human words to build bridges or we can use them to destroy and polarize us. We can do the same thing with images. You know, many have been very critical of, you know, the images that have been released by – you know, with the president depicted as Jesus. And so I think that, yes, you know, this is a moment where we really need to turn to the constructive power of the word and realize that there are political implications as well as human implications in terms of our family.

FADEL: Former United States Ambassador to the Holy See, Miguel Díaz. Thank you for your time.

DIAZ: Thank you.

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