Transcript: It’s Sanders vs. Schumer in Several Key Dem Primaries

And then the third thing is this, Perry. I think people, when they’re trying to decide who to vote for, they ask themselves: Who is this person? And if I asked you what color the sky is, I hope you would simply answer that it is blue, right? I hope you won’t be like, Well, that depends on who’s asking. I don’t know. In other words, it’s a complicated question. Are there clouds? It’s like the sky is blue, Perry. It’s blue. I shouldn’t have to argue with you. I shouldn’t have to make big ones, with reservation Okay, fine. If you push me enough, I’ll say it’s blue. The sky is blue. It’s the color of the sky.

Now why don’t you say it was blue? Well, because you’re worried about some people determined to change our politics to make us all believe the sky is brown, right? Or another color. You worry about what they will say about you. And what that tells me is that you are not a person of conviction. What this tells me is that you are not a person more concerned with being right and discovering the truth than playing politics. And what that tells me is that when it comes to other difficult questions, you’re probably going to bend. Because if you’re not willing to call the skies blue, what are you willing to say?

And I just think it’s a Rorschach test of our values, because it reveals to people, if you can’t cite the murder of 20,000 children and tens of thousands more adults, the destruction of their basic infrastructure, their homes, their universities, their hospitals, and the attempt to expel them from their own land because people in other countries speak the same language as them. If you can’t call it genocide, part of me is like, I’m really sorry, but that tells me you’re morally corrupt. I’m like, you just… it’s taking too much. But some in our politics want to pretend that none of this is true.

In fact, I applaud Senator McMorrow for finally being pushed to this point. But it also tells me that you are not someone who leads by your morals first. You lead with what you think is politically feasible and then you let the policy follow from there. And if that’s who you are, I think Michiganders are tired of these kinds of politicians ruling, because we want people who will actually fight for their values.

Bacon: Do you have anything else to add? Is there anything you would like to add from what you think or what you’ve seen specifically in Michigan? Let’s finish there.

El-Sayed: Yeah. I think we are at a crossroads in our politics. I think it’s a moment right now where the old way wasn’t working anymore. I ran in 2018 and said something people weren’t ready to hear: Donald Trump himself is not the disease of our politics. Donald Trump is just the worst symptom of the disease in our politics.

Are we ready to face the disease? And the disease is how big corporations, billionaires and would-be oligarchs buy and sell politicians to do their bidding. To face this system, we will have to demonstrate the courage of our convictions. We will have to be able to say uncomfortable, true things, and say them everywhere. And I think if we do that, we have a chance. But if the Democrats continue to play this game of prevarication where we are more interested in whether or not we are going to get control of the PAC than whether our values ​​are clear and straightforward – if we are more interested in worrying about a special interest like AIPAC and less interested in whether or not we are telling the truth about the killing of innocent children, I fear we will fail.

And we’re going to go down this path once again, and we’re going to watch as our society continues to move in an increasingly dangerous direction. It’s a moment of courage. It’s a moment of truth. This is a moment of honesty and integrity. And honestly, that’s the only reason I ran. I’m not very excited about this job, I’ll be honest with you. I don’t even know what I would talk about with Chuck Grassley. I care about work, and we need more politicians who are willing to stand up because they care more about work than about work.

Bacon: This is a great place to end. Thanks for joining me. I appreciate it. Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone else too.

El-Sayed: To you too. Thank you all.